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Beginner. Drum Shell Machine.

Discussion in 'Other Builds' started by packergene, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. packergene

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    WP_20150719_002 (1).jpg Hello all,
    I came across this site and was very impressed. I will start by admitting that I am not into this kind of stuff but rather a woodworker trying to come up with a way to move a 2 1/2 hp router vertically past a spinning stave constructed drum shell. If any one could point me in the right direction? I've looked over many thing here but seems like nothing would work for my situation. Seems I would need a screw on either side of the routers mounting plate? I'm not building parts for NASA, but would like some level of precision. Any help would be great. Thanks for any suggestions. Packergene
     
  2. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Are you wanting to motorize or automate it or is a hand crank sufficient?
     
  3. packergene

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    WP_20150719_002.jpg WP_20150719_001 (1).jpg Sorry for the lack of info. Yes I am looking to motorize this fixture. Here's what I'm looking to accomplish. I need the router to travel about 24 inches up and down, so I need the drive motor to be able to work in both directions. I need the router to move very slowly, around 2 to 3 inches per minute would be my guess. I would also like if the motor could be on some sort of speed control as it would make returning the router to the start position much quicker if I had the ability to speed it up. This system would need to be a bit beefy as the router alone weighs around ten pounds. And of coarse, I would want this to travel as tight and smooth as possible. The motor would need to be some what continuous duty as I may have to make several passes on a single drum. I assume the threads on any given lead screw would determine travel speed, but the ability to control the speed of the motor sounds what would work better for me. One other concern I have is I would need to make sure the routers travel stays parallel at all times to the one inch shaft.
    Now for the turn-table... As you can see by my pics, it's a pretty simple set up. Two flange bearings holding a one inch shaft. The bearings can be adjusted to accommodate drum diameters from 6 to 24 inches. I would like to mount a drive motor in the empty compartment in the left of the unit, putting the one inch shaft sprocket in-between the bearings. Again, this motor would need to be speed controlled and run in both directions. If I was not able to fit a motor in this compartment, I can mount everything completely under the unit as the one inch shaft runs all the way through and comes out the bottom.
    I mention sprockets w/chain, not pulleys w/belt, as I don't want any slipping going on while in operation. I have been machining these shells by hand and can say that there's not a whole lot resistance while cutting, but don't want to take any chances with slippage. I know there's more that I'm leaving out, but for now I hope this gives a better idea of what I'm after. Thanks for any help, Regards, WP_20150718_001 (1).jpg Packergene
     

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    #3 packergene, Jul 19, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
  4. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Here's a rough concept. Sketchup file attached. It's not dimensionally accurate but gives a rough idea. You'll probably need to add some lateral stiffeners. You'll also need an arduino with a couple of stepper drivers to run the stepper motors.

    Drum Mill.jpg
     

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  5. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Do you have the drum motor?
     
  6. packergene

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    no, I do not have any parts at this point.
    just trying to figure out what I need to do first
     
  7. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Work out your speeds and feeds. You should determine what range you need the drums to spin for the various woods you'll be using. From there start looking at motor options.

    I like Ricks idea for the router. You may also be able to make a small scissor lift table to attach the router to. Couple a nema 23 or 34 to that.

    Joe
     
  8. packergene

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    Rick 2.0 has a brilliant idea here, although I have to admit I don't know what is "arduino with a couple stepper drivers" means. (please explain) And as far as what Joe has suggested, I will some how figure what my speed and feed ranges and get back with my answers. Thanks guys, I really appreciate your help here.
     
  9. packergene

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    Rick2.0 I can not seem to download your file you added to your reply. Any chance it could be sent another way?
     
  10. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Stepper motors don't work the same as a typical motor. With most motors when you add power they spin and the more power you add, the faster they spin. This however doesn't work too well when you need controlled or repeatable results. Stepper motors are different. Every time you tell them to take a step, they rotate 1.8 degrees. You tell them to move 200 steps, they rotate 1 full turn. You tell them to move 200 steps in 1 second, you have defined distance and speed of rotation (even if you only got 1 full turn). From all this you can see that by telling the machine to take x number of steps at a specific rate you have controlled, repeatable motion.

    So how do you tell the motor to take x number of steps at a specific rate? That's what the Arduino board is for. An Arduino is a very low end computer module that processes very simple programming instructions. Between the Arduino and the stepper motors are the stepper drivers. The drivers take the instructions from the Arduino board and convert them into pulses to turn the motors.

    Some basic usage is shown here. More detailed explanations are provided here.

    While some find Arduinos fairly simple to program, I'm not one of those people and won't be of much help. For any given project I have learned just enough to get the project working. Fortunately, for just about anything you would want to do with an Arduino someone else has probably already done it and posted a video or how-to online. Google is about to become your new best friend.
     
  11. Joe Santarsiero

    Joe Santarsiero OB addict
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    Same here on the arduino Rick. I have one that I break out to play with every once in a while, but it's not my forte. I have a single stepper module for it and they can be picked up for fairly cheap. I have seen the code out there already to do this job.

    @packergene
    My concern is aimed at how the drum is going to be driven. An AC motor plugged in directly may not be suitable even with a control inverter unless there is some reducing going on. I think an ac to dc gear motor might be the perfect solution. They usually have a set speed, are strong and compact, and not very costly for something like this. You would have to spec them out to determine a rpm that would put you in a sweet spot for the different diameters and woods.
    Personally, I would just go all out and purchase a nice three or four axis controller with decent drivers and add engraving. I also tend to complicate things. :D

    Joe
     
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  12. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    I agree with Joe, just build a CNC lathe (-:
    This gives you the control, and also the future option of making a drum shell that is not just a cylinder.

    for the spindle drive, why not a worm drive? you will not want the spindle to rotate fast, because you want a surface speed of 50 to 100" per minute at the surface of the drum. but, it does need a lot of power, so a worm drive is ideal since it cannot turn the motor by pushing on the spindle, only the motor can turn the spindle.

    for the Z-X gantry arrangement, C-beams will work just fine, or Vslot. so take Rick2.0's drawign and add some C-beam under the vertical gantry he drew, so the computer can move it closer/further from the workpiece.
     

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