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Cnc Router/Spindle (Europe)

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Wakez, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. Wakez

    Wakez Well-Known
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    Hi guys,

    Currently waiting for my parts to arrive for my first cnc router built!

    Now i need some guidance in my search for a Router/Spindle. Because we have 220V in europe so the once i read about on the forums cant be used here;)

    I plan on doing all kinds of work on my machine, like woodwork, aluminium and if possible PCB's.
    I am not sure what kind of rpm's i need for those materials to start with (any link or readable material on this is also welcome!) and most of the machine's i found were not changeable.

    After some searching i found the following routers and i hope you guys could give me some advices about this:

    First is the makita RT0700c which i can get for 150 euro on ebay.
    Clamp 8 mm
    Max. cap. depth 35 mm
    Speed range 10000 - 30000 rpm
    Machine voltage [​IMG] 230 V
    Power consumed 710 Watt
    price tag: 150


    Second is the Kress FME 1050-1 which i can get for 180 euro.
    Clamp 8 mm
    MAXX-Power 1050 Watt motor
    Effective power 560W
    Speed range: 5.000 - 25.000 rpm
    Motor weight: 1,7 kg
    price tag: 180
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kress-1050W-Milling-Electronic-Control/dp/B00DOTGRRY

    Another Kress FME 800-Q which i can get for 165 euro.
    Clamp 8 mm
    MAXX-Power 800 Watt motor
    420W effective power
    Speed range: 10.000 - 29.000 rpm
    Motor weight: 1,4 kg
    price tag: 165

    I also found the bosch GFK600 which looks like the bosch you guys use but without changeable rpm and for 100 euro's more :p maybe through phase modulation i can slow it down.

    But i am not sure which is any good and what do i really need!?...

    Any thought on this (pro's / cons) or others ?
     
    #1 Wakez, Dec 21, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
    Mark Carew likes this.
  2. leversole

    leversole Journeyman
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    I have been using the Makita for about three weeks now...no issues, I like it pretty good...$99 here in the states but WITHOUT the extra bases!
     
  3. Florian Bauereisen

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    Hi

    For the price of a kress i would rather spend some 50 more and get a cheap chinese hf spindle...
    aprox same rpm range and same clamping diameters and torque.
    Since 2 years now I use a 800 watt hf spindle on my mill and really like it a lot, had a kress before...
    The kress is deafening to say the least, burned ??coals?? - well the electric connetors of a e-motor....
    Mounting only on the 43mm clamping on bottom is suboptimal too. (The kress will "tilt" around its clamp)
    The hf spinles usually get mounted with a generous clamping area or like mine using two clamps spaced geenerously apart.

    My 800 watts spindle has aprox the same power-output as the 1050 Kress cause of a better efficiency.

    Cannot comment on the makita.

    Greets

    flo
     
    Synths likes this.
  4. Wakez

    Wakez Well-Known
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    So you would recommend a spindel like this or .. ?
    SPINDELMOTOR 0,8 KW LUFTGEKÜHLTE+1.5KW VFD ENGRAVER ER11 220-250V HIGH LEVEL
    It's air cooled and it will cost me around 198 so money wise it's not a big difference, it will only consume more space :p due to the regulator.

    I also saw this a 1.5KW water cooled one but with a speed range from 8000 to 24000 for €210.
    1,5KW WASSERGEKÜHLTE SPINDEL CNC ROUTER 1.5KW VFD DRIVE MILLING COOLE MOTOR

    Gonna look into those types of spindels, I see the in air/water cooled and different powers.
    First i was just looking into regular carpenter spindel/routers but those look also promising.

    I am really new to cnc so i have no knowledge whatsoever so all the tips and information are welcome!

    But what speed ranges do i need to look for ?
    I read that for metal and plastic lower speeds are required than for wood, but not sure on the actual speeds?
     
    #4 Wakez, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
  5. Florian Bauereisen

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    Hi,
    there are a few factors determining the best spindle for YOUR router.
    1.
    weight: put simply i think that a 1.5 or even 2 kw hf is much too heavy for an ox - type of cnc.
    2. materials to mill and mill bits to use
    simply put: to mill steel the ox is not stiff enough, steel is usually milled say up to 4000 rpm. Spindles running that slow (and putting out enough torque for steel) are even more heavy than the ones above - so no good.
    So your choice of spindles lays between 5000- and 30000..... all of them above.

    an easy way of viewing it:
    large diam bit equals slower rpm and more torque ( you will have realised that from pre drilling large holes with handheld tools)
    small diam bit faster rpm.
    shallow milling less torque, deep pocketing more torque

    put it this way: with any of the spindles above you will be milling aluminum more shallow and balsawood really fast...

    so in the end your will have to adjust your cutting speedes to your cnc and your spindle - no matter what anybody anywhere recomends.

    buying any of the mentioned spindles above will give your good results.
    maybe you`d have to use smaller bits than dreamed off - but so what?
    maybe you go a little slower - so what?

    greets

    flo
     
  6. Wakez

    Wakez Well-Known
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    Hi flo,

    Thanks for your advice and with the once above you mean all or the HF spindles?
    I'm currently considering the 0.8kw hf spindle which you adviced due to the nice mounting possibilities!
    I am not sure if i miss the range up to 30000 the one i mentioned is 0 to 24000.
    But the others cant go lower than 10000 so for milling aluminum thats a problem right ?
     
  7. Florian Bauereisen

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    Almost right.
    yes i meant all of the above mentioned spindles will work nicely.
    With none of these spindles you are likely to use a say 12 or even 15 mm bit in Aluminium (other than surfaceing 1/10 mm) as none has the torque to do so - at the required slow rpm.
    so with say 6mm bits you will be fine... and the 24000 will be needet to use the spindles with 1mm and smaller bits...

    Marry Christmas

    flo
     
  8. Yellers

    Yellers New
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    I'm also based in Europe and will be going with the European equivalent of the DeWalt 611 which is the d26200. I was originally about to purchase an XCarve and that community love the 611 so I'm going to go with that.

    Dewalt D26200 1/4in Fixed Base Compact Router 240V
     
  9. Dave C

    Dave C New
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    The Kress is better from what I read - I'm a noob - and its available from germany.

    Probably be shot down now :)
     
  10. Wakez

    Wakez Well-Known
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    I think i would prefer the kress over the dewalt.
    but the dewalt you could also use as normal tool and the kress not, due to the lack of mount/handle.

    But compared to the HF spindles i mentioned in the ebay links wouldn't that be the best option?
     
  11. Yellers

    Yellers New
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    That's interesting... Also, to Wakez's point the trade off would be you can't use the kress as a 'normal' router.

    The below is an interesting chart from an ebay shop selling HF spindles. Flo, do you think that 4KG is too heavy for an OX cnc machine? Also, as Wakez asked would the .8kw weighing in at 2.5kg work for an OX cnc machine?

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Florian Bauereisen

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    Hi,
    eventhough 4 kg might be ok with the ox there is still question why?
    Look at it like this:
    Most people prefere the 2,2kw over the 1,5 not because of power but because of the collet sice ER20 opposed to ER16. That is because standard router bits (for FESTO, MAKITA; DEWALT) are ceaper than the specialised smaller ones.
    Appart from surfacing the spoilboards most of em hardly use that big tools on hobby mills thereafter - waste? small man syndrom?

    Same for the 1,5 KW over the 800W
    I doubt that an ox can even take the force generated when you really load up an 1,5 kw spindle.
    So in therory you can swing big tools but in reality you end up shaving ever so lightly with these tools - so where is the use?

    When milling aluminium parts for my new mill at my buddies place we had one of these "power spy`s" between the complete setup ( 800kg mill /nema34 , computer and spindle) and wall-socket.
    If i remember correctly:
    16-18000rpm, 4mm single flute bit aprox 1200mm/min at 1,2 mm depth used about 350-380 Watts all together (dont nail me on correct numbers.. did not take notes)

    It is true though that a bigger and longer Spindle runs smoother at load, cause of it bigger dia. rotor and longer distance between bearings.

    So what are you planning with your cnc?
    mill full depth 15mm using a 10mm bit into aluminum? -get a mill weighting at least 1 ton.
    I have not fully loadet my 800W HF spindle cause i simply havn`t got a use for that- so far...
    Why would i like to hog out 8 or 10 mm wide cannels in Aluminum? to waiste even more of it ? Or, if really neccesary, simply do a pocket.
    Cutouts? - can be done using 3...4 mm bits.
    really big Pockets - yea how often? -really? Why not use a better CAM and do adaptive clearing (tronchiodal milling) which is the clever way to do so - better for tool-lasting and faster for a given machine-stability if compared.

    My opinion as always.

    hope that helps

    greets

    Flo
     
    Synths likes this.
  13. Wakez

    Wakez Well-Known
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    I am about to buy the 0.8kw aircooled spindle with vfd on amazone for €208 the 1.5kw is €218 so still considering, but it's 2.5kg which is 1kg more than the kress.
    Is this a problem for a routy/ox style router?
     
  14. Jacobus_XIII

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    What kind of spindle do you guy recommend for a c-beam machine? Will the weight of a 1.5kW spindle still be a problem?
     
  15. Korimako

    Korimako New
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    Hi I have just purchased a makita spindle, how long can you run it without overheating? thank you
     
  16. leversole

    leversole Journeyman
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    I have run a max of more than an hour, did not measure the temps but did not feel hot, no issues...
     
  17. Korimako

    Korimako New
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    Thank you ;-)
     

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