Welcome to Our Community

Unlock hidden features. Sign Up for Free Today!

Griffin Delta Printer

Discussion in '3D printers' started by Sheepdog, Mar 9, 2014.

  1. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    8
    Sheepdog published a new build:

    Read more about this build...
     
  2. Tweakie

    Tweakie OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    290
    Very nice build, thanks for sharing Sheepdog. :thumbsup:

    Tweakie.
     
  3. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Resident Builder Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,817
    Likes Received:
    919
    Well done! Thank you for sharing this awesome build. :thumbsup:
     
  4. Elmo Clarity

    Elmo Clarity Master
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    124
    I went to the website you linked to in the description for the build information, but couldn't find any. Are they still available?
     
  5. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    8
  6. Travis Woods

    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would really like to order the parts separatly and source the materials myself. Do you have the list of materials anywhere? I didn't see it on your site. Thanks in advance
     
  7. David Bunch

    David Bunch Veteran
    Builder

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    14
    I looked at this delta awhile back & found this page which sounds like the info you are looking for.

    Griffin Articles
     
  8. Travis Woods

    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Awesome, thank you. I did notice however that this build is a few years old without any real updates on parts. What's your take on the build? I'm looking to build a Delta style printer with a good-sized build volume like this one. Do you know of any others?
     
  9. Elmo Clarity

    Elmo Clarity Master
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    124
    Did you check out the Delta6 project?
     
  10. Travis Woods

    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yea i have seen that build. It looks great but i didn't see what the build volume was.
     
  11. Elmo Clarity

    Elmo Clarity Master
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    124
    You can vary the build volume just by using longer extrusions. It can be whatever you want, within reason. What size are you looking for?
     
  12. Travis Woods

    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would like to use this heat bed and glass combo ( 400mm ) 400mm Heat Bed Kit, perhaps even bigger but i've read it can be hard and not very cost effective to go bigger than that ( due to the power source required to heat that size of bed ). Height wise i would like to aim for 50"? Hence the interest in the 20 by 40 extrusions.
     
  13. David Bunch

    David Bunch Veteran
    Builder

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    14
    I have been looking at building a Delta for awhile & looked at the Griffin & the Delta 6. I started to build the Emmett-Delta that I have a build log on this site, but decided using EMT for the horizontals was just too much trouble. I might still build a Delta 6 style at some point, but have been recently looking at building a Delta kit that has all the parts and assembly guide to help me understand the build better. I have been looking at this one for the last week or so Folger Tech Kossel 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level . It has some pretty good reviews on the 3dprintersonlinestore. For less than $350 with a 210mm Print Area x 310mm, this seems like a really good price for a DIY delta kit. It is also a US company based and owned that puts the kit together. It does have some limitations with the 8bit electronics, but seems like a good place to start for the money. They also have what appears to be a CoreXY printer with a big volume that is just coming out. It has a build volume of 300x300x~400mm for $500.
     
  14. Travis Woods

    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I also looked at the folger tech. I would definitely say they are the best as far as kit goes. They sell a vertical upgrade kit for 60 bucks ( Kossel 2020 REV B Vertical Upgrade Kit 1100mm ) that would upgrade the build height to 43 inches. My intention was to try and source a build from scratch and see how it could compare to the folger tech. Realistically all that it's lacking for me is the build diameter which is at 8". Though for that money i don't know how much better i could do. Plus it would come with support and build documents.
     
  15. David Bunch

    David Bunch Veteran
    Builder

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    14
    I had not seen that. Thanks for the link. I am not sure how sturdy that would be with just the 2020 going up another 400mm, but might could go a little higher by sourcing those items separately. Their 1 meter 2020 sells for $4.49 each.
     
  16. Travis Woods

    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    True true. I'm going to start a build list today with the 2040 extrusions and see how it looks.
     
  17. David Bunch

    David Bunch Veteran
    Builder

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2014
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    14
    If you are looking for a better idea of what size extrusions will give you what size build take a look at this page of the Delta 6 thread. Delta-Six . I made an openscad calculator for the Delta 6 based on this calculator: GitHub - Jaydmdigital/mk_visual_calc: mini Kossel visual calculator. Message #439 on the Delta 6 thread, I believe has the latest version of that calculator. There is also a Delta Simulator GitHub - PRouzeau/OpenSCAD-Delta-Simulator: Simulate cinematic of a delta robot (3D printer or CNC) - Animation by PRouzeau. He added the Delta 6 style in his simulator.
     
  18. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    8
    While 3 years old and I do have some updates for it (been too busy working on the Pro), deltas really haven't progressed much since.

    The only real big change has been 32bit, but most are still using Ramps, don't use Ramps on a delta, trust me. This is an easy swap to make, just change the controller mount. The other change has been more progress on magnetic rod ends. You will never max out the speed on on a delta using magnetic rod ends. I know people with Griffins that have been clocked on video at over 400mm/s, you cannot do that with magnetic ends. Their weight is an issue, as is the clamping power, they simply cannot hit the high speeds. As for the minor bit of slop, there are ways to fight that, we use o-rings on the Pro, simple, extremely cheap, and very light weight.


    No matter how large the heated bed, you still can't really go over 150mm wide with plastics that need a heated bed. Shrinkage is shrinkage, the heated bed is just a bandage for the problem. There are ways to extend it, but for the most part, a larger bed just allows you to do more at once, not larger parts. Again, this only applies to those that need the heat.

    You cannot just heat one section if you use a glass bed either, and even if you use thin glass, it will still need 400-500 watts to heat. That's a lot of heat being dumped out for a very long period. 24 hours? I barely consider that a break in print for our Pro XL. We've done lots of 30+ hour prints and several 72 hour prints. That's a long time to be putting out that sort of heat. A thicker chunk of glass will need 750 watts.

    Keep in mind, that no controller is designed to handle that sort of power, so you will need a relay setup as well as a secondary power source. This borders on the idea that, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
     
    #18 Sheepdog, Jun 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
    Travis Woods likes this.
  19. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    8
    Beware cheap rails.
    One of the reasons I used V-slot and we now use it for the pro models was because of the accuracy, Openbuilds tells you the specs and went through a lot of effort getting it to that accuracy.


    The extrusion size is not what makes the printer stiff or a wet noodle. The length of the rail makes a difference because of the leverage it has on the frame connectors, you could put 80x80 and it will make little difference. If you want it stiffer, you need stronger frame corners, with a larger grip area.

    Grab a rail and grip it at the end with your hand, now grab it at the end only using your thumb and index finger at the tip. You have far less control, and it's the same thing with a printer as it grows, you're reducing the grip and surface area. However, while not ideal, you still have yet to exceed what I consider safe for a Griffin (1000tall x 500 wide).

    I'm not saying 20x40 will not help, I'm just saying it will not help nearly as much as you think as the rails are not the part that's flexing. Now, if you beef up the frame connectors, THEN the rails could become the give point, but as it stands, no.
     
    Travis Woods likes this.
  20. Travis Woods

    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2016
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok. First off. Thank you so much for droppin the knowledge, much appreciated.

    So if i were to build from scratch.

    1) I WOULD use magnetic rod ends? Speed is absolutely something important to me as i'm looking to print some big stuff.

    2) A 32bit board for controlling everything. Smoothie board? RepRap RUMBA Discount? Beaglebone?

    3)Heat: Would an enclosed case around the printer help with larger prints? If i used a 500W PC power supply with high amps on the 12v rail would that be sufficient in conjunction with the printer being enclosed? Having a heated bed isn't NECESSARY considering i'll mostly be printing in PLA based pieces but it would be nice.

    4) Deal on the V-rails, i'll source those parts. Which rollers do you feel are best?

    5) Good logic on the extrusions, i'll look into building big solid corners. Maybe print some using PC-MAX. Perhaps best to do the 2040's WITH the big corners.
     
  21. Elmo Clarity

    Elmo Clarity Master
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    124
    Travis Woods likes this.
  22. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    8
    You're welcome.

    1. If you want speed, do not use magnetic ends. Take a look at the build guide for the Pro and you will see how we fight slop with simple o-rings..

    2. I beleive the Rumba is just a Mega 2560, and not 32bit. You want a Smoothie, Azteeg X5, Duet or Beaglebone. Beware the latter, they can get pricey. If you don't want dual extrusion, the Azteeg is probably the bang for the buck. Also the smallest, easiest to hide and with good support.

    3. A heated chamber can/will improve max print size and that's what you're describing, but they pretty much need to have a printer designed and built into it from scratch, the reason being, you will have a lot of heat in there. Cooling the hot end will be an issue for the hot end, electronics and motors need to be mounted outside, and you will end up with a very large box.

    All of that, on top of the fact that parts expand, this is something many ignore in large printers until you experience it. At one show, we left our XL setup and because they disabled the air conditioner overnight, the printer grew by about 0.3mm, we had to recalibrate the Z height before it could print, and then change it back before the second print, and that was only a temp change of maybe 10 or 15degrees f. Inside a heated chamber it will change closer to 100degrees f, it will grow and the chamber needs to be able to compensate.

    4. I like the mini-v's, while the std. Delrin work fine, I would like to try the polycarbonate ones, but they will be a tad noisier and probably do nothing in a typical delta. Do NOT use the metal wheels, they will slowly grind down your rails and absolutely make a lot of noise. You can sleep in the same room as a Griffin, you won't with metal wheels.

    5. It's about surface and grip. Try bending some 2020 across your knee before you start messing with larger. and consider how much pressure the printer can actually exert. We have 1000x500mm Griffins running at 400mm/s and what flex the printer has doesn't significantly effect the print. Something smaller, at lower speeds will do even less.

    By the way, choose your parts carefully, most printers and off the shelf parts are simply not designed for it, in fact most parts you find are actually only designed for running right around 100mm/s. Your extruder, nozzle size, hot-end type and frame really need to be carefully chosen, in fact, your pneumatic fittings, bowden tube and even where you mount the spool can play a part.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    The OpenBuilds Team is dedicated helping you to Dream it - Build it - Share it! Collaborate on our forums and be sure to visit the Part Store for all your Building needs!
  • Like us on Facebook

  • Support Open Source FairShare Program!

    OpenBuilds FairShare Give Back Program provide resources to Open Source projects, developers and schools around the world. Invest in your future by helping others develop theirs!

    Donate to FairShare!