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Large 3D printer

Discussion in '3D printers' started by Keteland, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. Keteland

    Keteland Well-Known
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    Keteland published a new build:

    Read more about this build...
     
  2. Keteland

    Keteland Well-Known
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    Bonjour à tous !

    My build is almost done (I still have to replace the actual heating bed by a large silicon heating resistance). The rest is ok, and has been verified before to start it up.

    FIRMWARE
    I uploaded the Marlin I got for my Prusa i3 Firmware using the Arduino software (for the moment, I did not change anything in the sketch).

    SOFTWARE
    I use Arduino software to upload the firmware, and Repetier Host to control the machine with my PC.

    TESTS
    the extruder heats up
    the heating bed heats up
    the extruder ventilation works fine

    … but the motors do not move at all !

    I tried to disconnect and reconnect every cables : same results … / I used another Marlin (the one used for the BQ's Prusa i3 Hephestos) : it does not make any difference …

    MY SKILLS
    I am "almost good" to design the mechanical parts … but I am a beginner for the electronics and computing aspects of the design.

    HELP !
    So, if one can help, that would be very nice of you !
     
  3. AK-Creation

    AK-Creation Veteran
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    Hi Keteland,
    What kind of limit switch do you use (opener or closer)?
     
  4. Keteland

    Keteland Well-Known
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    Hello AK-Creation !
    I do not know how to make difference between "opener" ou "closer" limit switch. I up loaded images of the electronics I use (I use the same electronics than what I found on my Prusa I3 kit …).

    I had a little discussion with Ienne0815 (large 80x80x80 cm 3D printer in progress) : the problem might come from the fact that NEMA 23 need 48 Voltages to run … and external drivers also, and maybe slaved. If so, I have no idea how to do that ! (I am a real beginner in electronics)
     

    Attached Files:

  5. AK-Creation

    AK-Creation Veteran
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    The most Nema 23 Motors, what I know, Need 12V (Example: Open Build Part store). Have you really 48V Nema Motors?
    The Problem what I see is the current (amperage). The Ramps 1.4 can control Motors up to 1,5 A (good for Nema 17), but Nema 23 Motors Need 2,8 A.

    You can adjust the amperage on your Ramps 1.4 with the Potentiometers. When you give full Ampere Power, may be the Motors move!??

    The Picture Show the small Potentiometer:
    upload_2016-1-8_13-11-57.png
     
  6. lenne0815

    lenne0815 Well-Known
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    Hey Creation, higher voltage allows for higher top speed / more torque of the steppers ( Induces some problems aswell though ) What u need overall depends on the application but i would go for the higher end of the rating.

    "Gecko recommends running the motor from 4 times (minimum) to 25 times (maximum) the rated voltage"

    Gecko is one of the biggest manufacturers for stepper drivers.

    That would amount to about 48V for these small 2,8V rated Nema 23s

    Running these large motors with the tiny stepsticks isnt a good idea i think, theyll get really hot after a short while and either power off or burn ( depends on the safety mechanisms in place )

    Concerning the Open Builds Steppers, they are rated at 3V so if ure actually driving them with 12V ure far off for the holding torque / rpms they can actually output and just scraping the bottom of their capabilities.

    Thing is i think for 60V u clearly need external drivers from gecko / Leadshine etc obviously everyone tries to avoid the cost that comes with these ;)

    PS. A very observant reader might call me out on the holding torque statement because that isnt influenced to much by the input voltage, but in a real world application before u attain the holding torque ull obviously need to slow down the steppers to a full halt. The power of this slowdown to a halt is on the other hand highly influenced by the input voltage and is important for a 3D printing application.
     
    #6 lenne0815, Jan 8, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  7. AK-Creation

    AK-Creation Veteran
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    Hi lenne0815,
    sorry for my late replay - I´m very busy last time.

    Thanks for your information about that a" higher voltage allows higher top speed". That can be interesting for future project.
    The electric field is not one of my strengths, so I'm glad to learn something about it.

    What do you mean about a CNC Combo Machines and the best use voltage (12 or 48V)?
    I like CNC Combo - Machines (3D Print, Laser, Mill .... what ever).
    Here my current project:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The operation voltage is 12V, because for the Mill I need some Power.
    The other application lose some speed, but for a Combo Machine is it ok.

    Is that a good choice , or is it better to use 48V?
     
  8. lenne0815

    lenne0815 Well-Known
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    Very nice looking machine !

    Where did u get all the sheet metal work done ?

    What kind of stepper drivers are you using right now ?
    What pitch are your ballscrews ?
    Whats the highest rpm you can drive your stepper motors right now under load ?

    Actually for your build theres another problem, if you build it with classic trapezoidal spindles theres only so much speed you can get before the nuts overheat / the spindles start to wobble.

    In general its diffcult to build all in one machines because you always end up with tradeoffs- 3D Printing and laser engraving ( even more so ) are very high speed applications, whereas routing speed highly depends on chip load / torque of your router / stepper torque / machine rigidity and is usually a lot lower.
     
    #8 lenne0815, Jan 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
  9. Keteland

    Keteland Well-Known
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    Hello Guys !
    Sorry for my late answer : I was out of town this week end. Thank you very much for all your advises ! Next week, I'll check the potentiometers, as AK Creation advised, but I'll replace the NEMA 23 by NEMA 17 and see what happens. The 3D application I want to do with this machine is PLA printing for the moment. In the future, I'd like to get clay or plaster printing. So, I want to be able to change easily the printing head considering the material I will want to use. We'll see once I'm done with my non-moving motors.

    About Voltage issues, I'll look also for more infos about it. As AK Creation said, it's gonna be interesting for future projects. I'll get back to you when I found something interesting about it.

    AK Creation : I like your CNC build ! Impressive ! Where did you get the laser ?

    Merci beaucoup, et à bientôt !
     
  10. AK-Creation

    AK-Creation Veteran
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    Q1: A friend work on a laser machine, he produce the alu metal plates for me.

    Q2: I use the BAM & Dice Board, based on Arduino 2560.
    Link: BAM Shield mit Arduino und vier mal DICE-STK - 2PrintBeta - 3D-Drucker, Entwicklung, Prototypen

    Q3: I use a trapezoidal spindles TR 12x6.

    Q4: The highest move is 3000 mm/min (without load - position speed) and for milling (work) moves 450 - 500 mm/min.
    You have right, the spindles begin to wobble by 3000 mm/min. So it is better to move max. 2000 - 2500 mm/min.
    But for me (Home milling machine) is the speed enough.
    Only the 3D printing part is slow - 12mm/min, but I dont print so much und so it´s good to have this option.

    Q5: It is true, that it is difficult to build a all in one machine. In the first line it is a milling machine and for all other options that I can integrate, I don't need another machines.
    So, one machine need less place and saves money, but I know, that is not possible to get a all in one high end machine.
     
  11. AK-Creation

    AK-Creation Veteran
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  12. Keteland

    Keteland Well-Known
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    Hello !
    Thank you for the information. I'll keep it in mind for my future CNC project (and I've got a safety glasses already).

    I checked the potentiometers of my 3D printer : I can get up to 1,26 A on each (strangely, I have not been able to get higher values). NEMA 23 Motors do not move anyway … In consequence, I am replacing the NEMA 23 by NEMA 17 as Ienne0815 suggested. I already tested the solution connecting a NEMA 17 on the RAMPS 1.4, and it works (at least, the NEAM 17 runs …).
     
  13. Clint Phillips

    Clint Phillips Well-Known
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    Its a shame you didn't try DRV8825 drivers before buying new steppers, I couldn't run my NEMA 23's from the A4988's either.
     
  14. brbubba

    brbubba Well-Known
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    Any word or discussion on what you ended up using for the printer bed? I've got a maximus inspired build I'm working on and really unsure on how to move forward with the print bed.
     
  15. Keteland

    Keteland Well-Known
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    Hello !
    I looked for a long time to find a large heating bed (45 x 45 cm). I found something on silicon heating beds for industrial applications … but it costs too much money (over 400 €) !
    I just found (today) another kind of sticky heating bed 20x20. I ordered 4 units that I will assemble in parallel. 20€ each. I should receive it within a week. I will try and tell you if it works. Here is a link to see what I found : Patch chauffant Polyimide 12V 140W | Reprap France

    For the rest, my 3D printer works fine (It's my first build, and I had few problems to deal with). I am now adjusting the axis to get precision.
     

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