Welcome to Our Community

Unlock hidden features. Sign Up for Free Today!

Time lapse rail question

Discussion in 'General Talk' started by gjwest, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. gjwest

    gjwest Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    17
    Hi

    I'm in the process of building a time lapse camera slider rail along the lines of the V-Slot Belt & Pinion Linear Drive System. It will be driven by a NEMA 17 and arduino control system and be 1.5m long The camera will be a DSLR. The controller and camera will both be on the gantry plate with the motor. I've tossing up between the 20 x 60 mm rail and the 20 x 80 mm rail particularly as the wider rail may offer more stability. Does any one have any recommendations on which may be better??

    Greg
     
  2. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    399
    With properly adjusted wheels, you could use a 20x20 rail and not have stability problems. Personally, with any camera setup less than 10-12 pounds, I would be using a 20x40 rail and a 6 wheel plate.
     
  3. gjwest

    gjwest Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    17
    Thanks Rick 2.0, the total weight will be around 5kg, about 11lbs, so I'll go for the 20x60mm.
     
  4. Duane

    Duane Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    3
    Hi Greg

    I've started to plan something similar in my head. Having all the rail sizes on hand at the moment for my OX build, I plan on using the 60x20 for my medium size DSLR.

    I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

    Cheers
    D
     
  5. gjwest

    gjwest Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    17
    Hi Duane

    I have no experience with the rail so was unsure as to which rail size to use, but based on the info so far I'm going with the 60x20 1.5m black anodized. I think I have sorted the hardware side of things now, I just need to wait for the rail to be in stock in AU. I'm still working on the electronics to drive it all but am close to finishing that as well. I will put the build up once I get it all working.

    Cheers
    Greg
     
  6. Duane

    Duane Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    May 19, 2014
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    3
    Just when you think you had it sorted.....

    I came across this slider earlier today which appears to use v-slot.

    http://zenslider.com/zenslider/

    There's also some discussion on wheel orientation here.

    Just some food for thought.
     
  7. Tweakie

    Tweakie OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    290
    Hi Duane,

    I think it's the standard extrusion rather than V-Slot (captured this image from their video) but their set-up certainly seems to have a nice smooth motion.

    Tweakie.

    06-07-2014 08-59-01.jpg
     
  8. gjwest

    gjwest Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    17
    Hi Guys

    That system looks interesting and seems to have no wheels. I'm opting for the solid delrin wheels both for the belt support and the extra stength, though I'm not sure how the bearings will cope based on the this but the system will be operating in a start, stop, shoot, method not as one continuous run. I have seen other systems similar to this that use the delrin v wheels using makerslide but there is not much about how much weight they can take. My plan currently has only 2 wheels on each side of the rail but it may be worth upping this to spread the load.

    Below is some rough images of my plan so far. CameraRail1.png CameraRail2.png
     
    Mark Carew likes this.
  9. gjwest

    gjwest Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    17
    A possible alternative to the horizontal wheels and potential bearing stress may be to have the wheels vertical, both top and bottom of the rail, using a couple of modified gantry plates, L brackets and Eccentric Spacers on the bottom to adjust the wheels, as below. While perhaps not a very elegant approach,with some work this could be made a bit more compact and to look better.

    Untitled_1.png
     
    Robert Hummel likes this.
  10. Robert Hummel

    Robert Hummel Custom Builder
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    670
    Using mini wheels would also allow for a more compact package.

    I have come up with a alternative that is super strong/compact that I plan to use for a cam slide but can't share at the moment due to some openbuilds top secret things that are in the works
     
  11. GrayUK

    GrayUK Master
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    May 5, 2014
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    214
    :zipit::zipit::zipit::zipit: :eek::eek::eek::eek: Secret! Mmmmm! :nailbite::nailbite::nailbite::nailbite::nailbite:

    Gray :D:D:D

    (You knew I wasn't going to let you to get away with that comment. LOL)
    :D:D
     
    Robert Hummel likes this.
  12. Robert Hummel

    Robert Hummel Custom Builder
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    670
    I guess it's not that secret as the idea was posted, I just made my own rendition of it to suit my needs :)

    I just won't be releasing the files
     
  13. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    399
    I knocked together a quick mockup based on what you have shown using a 6 wheel v-slot gantry plate with the wheel bearings transversely loaded. With a 5kg load there were no noticeable issues with the bearings. While this is not an orientation I would use for a CNC setup which would have thousands upon thousands of high speed motions, for a slow moving slider you will not likely have any issues with the bearings.

    One issue that should be noted however is that under full load with the slider at the center, there was a rail deflection of slightly over 7mm. You will probably want to move the end supports inward 25cm to 30cm from the ends to reduce this to a negligible amount.
     
    Mark Carew likes this.
  14. gjwest

    gjwest Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    17
    Thanks Rick, I was also concerned about how much deflection there would be. The plate I have for the tripod mount can slide along the rail to any location so moving the tripods in form the end wont be a problem.

    Robert I am intrigued by your response and am interested in learning more, any idea when you would be able to share the secret??
     
  15. mattkrebs

    mattkrebs New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    @gjwest i am attempting to build a time lapse slider as well based on the pi lapse build found here. You mentioned you are mounting the motor on the gantry plate with the Camera and ardunio. Can you explain how you are mounting the motor, i am planing on using a dc motor and not one of the stepper motors from open build. Also are you running a belt along the width of the slider or does the motor just move the wheels on the side that it is mounted to? See very bad drawing.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. gjwest

    gjwest Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    17
    I also looked at the PiLapse and was tossing up which to go with. I already had an Arduino so went with that and based my system on Airic Lenzs MiniE v1. Based on your pic I think you are planning on doing the same as me but with a Pi. Below is an image of what I'm basing mine on. More info can be found here I am putting together site for the build here and will also be posting the final build on Openbuilds. My length of rail finally is hopefully turning up today so I can complete the build this week and get the final build online for anyone interested.


    [​IMG]
     
  17. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    520
    Likes Received:
    250
    I would orient the rail vertically to minimize deflection due to gravity.
    put the motor underneath and the camera on top. maybe a plate each side then you can mount the electronics one side and battery the other.
     
  18. gjwest

    gjwest Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    17
    I have thought about that and as mentioned by Rick 2.0 above I'm investigating how much this can be minimized by placing the supports in a bit from the ends. I have loaded a 1.5m length of rail with 5kg in the center and it deflected about 4mm with supports at the very ends of the rail. I moved the supports in 25cm each end and the deflection was only about 1mm. I do like the idea of putting the rail vertically and removing the deflection all together and may look at this option in future enhancements.
     
  19. mattkrebs

    mattkrebs New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    sorry, im not an engineer, but are you referring to the amount of sag the rail will undergo when the weight of the camera and electronics is applied?
     
  20. gjwest

    gjwest Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    17
    I'm no engineer either but yes we are referring to the amount of flex or sag the rail will have with under load. If I place a 5kg load (which is approx the weight of the gantry with motor, electronics and camera) in the center of the rail and have it supported at the very ends of the rail it sags about 4mm. however if I move the supports in 25cm from the ends the sag is only about 1mm. I'm going to build the system I have already started and see how it goes. I'm already thinking about a twin rail system with two 20x40mm rails on edge with a 20mm gap in between, so effectively the same width as the 20x60mm rail but more rigid. I could still use the same or slightly modified gantry setup I currently have.
     
  21. mattkrebs

    mattkrebs New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was thinking of that approach too..it would give me some room to mount the battery pack under the gantry plate..since i am running out of room for everything on top. Let me know how it goes. I ordered everything already from OB store so i am stuck with using the 60x20 rail. I might try to use an arduino instead of the RPi . keep us updated on your progress.
     
  22. gjwest

    gjwest Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    17
    Hi All, It's been a while but I have finally finished my time lapse rail build. For those that are interested I have posted the build on the builds page. It is a first pass and could do with some changes but so far it is working quite well. I'm always interested in learning more and making it better so any thoughts, ideas or feedback is welcome.
     
    mattkrebs likes this.
  23. mattkrebs

    mattkrebs New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    Congratulations. It looks great! I like the construction.

    I finished mine this week as well. The rail is very similar to yours however i don't have all the bells and whistles like yours. I will try to put up build page for it when i get a chance.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    The OpenBuilds Team is dedicated helping you to Dream it - Build it - Share it! Collaborate on our forums and be sure to visit the Part Store for all your Building needs!
  • Like us on Facebook

  • Support Open Source FairShare Program!

    OpenBuilds FairShare Give Back Program provide resources to Open Source projects, developers and schools around the world. Invest in your future by helping others develop theirs!

    Donate to FairShare!